Comments on: Be an early adopter now – is LiteCoin the new, fair BitCoin? http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/ Stuff Ron Gross Finds Interesting Sun, 02 Aug 2015 11:03:35 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.5.3 By: Mastercoin,Ron第三次投资神话预言能否成真 http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/comment-page-1/#comment-17148 Wed, 04 Dec 2013 15:37:59 +0000 http://v1.ripper234.com/?p=1601#comment-17148 […] http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/ […]

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By: A Quantum Immortal » MasterCoin – your new high yield investment! http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/comment-page-1/#comment-10535 Thu, 01 Aug 2013 06:05:55 +0000 http://v1.ripper234.com/?p=1601#comment-10535 […] the various alt-coins (Bitcoin forks), I have only promoted Litecoin on this blog, on October 2011 – it was a chance for early adopters to join in on an attempt […]

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By: Meni Rosenfeld http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/comment-page-1/#comment-4357 Sat, 15 Oct 2011 17:49:43 +0000 http://v1.ripper234.com/?p=1601#comment-4357 @coblee, you can do a double spend with less than 50% of the hashrate, but you’re not guaranteed success. You need to be able to build a branch from an old block which didn’t include the transaction you want to reverse, before the rest of the network gets too far ahead. The probability of success depends on your hashrate and the number of blocks the receiver waited. If you have 10% of the capacity, then your success rate is roughly 20% for waiting 1 block, 5% for 2 blocks, 1.3% for 3 blocks, etc. All this assume your relative hashrate is constant and, as I said, does not at all depend on the average amount of time it takes to find a block. This is all discussed in Satoshi’s original paper.

What’s special about >50% is that you’re guaranteed to succeed, eventually, no matter how many blocks are waited. But this result assumes you are in control indefinitely and doesn’t tell you how long it will take – and of course, the time it takes is random so if you only control the hashrate for a few hours you’re not guaranteed success. The greater your hashrate, the less time required / the greater the probability of success in a given time. It’s definitely not simply “if the merchant waits 10 minutes, the attacker should control >50% for 10 minutes”.

So, for the highly unlikely scenario that someone control >50% for a limited amount of time, the amount of time waited is the primary contributor to security. For the much more likely scenario that someone controls ~10% for an extended period of time, number of blocks is the relevant parameter.

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By: coblee http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/comment-page-1/#comment-4356 Sat, 15 Oct 2011 09:25:41 +0000 http://v1.ripper234.com/?p=1601#comment-4356 @meni, I believe you are wrong about the security of each block confirmation. I’ve thought about this a while now. The security depends on the time and not the number of block confirmations. Because in order to successfully pull off a double spend attack, you have hold 51% of the network for a certain amount of time. If a merchant decides to wait 10 minutes (1 bitcoin confirm OR 4 litecoin confirms) to make sure the transaction is good, in order to perform a double spend attack, the attacker would have to hold 51% of the total network hashrate for those 10 minutes in order to succeed.

To think of it another way, let’s take this to the extreme. Imagine if I designed a coin that targets block confirmations periods of 1 year. Let’s call that YearCoin. Do you still claim that 1 Bitcoin confirmation is as secure as 1 YearCoin confirmation? It took the whole network a year to find a YearCoin block! Once that block was found, how easy would it be for someone to double spend a transaction in that block? Wouldn’t you agree that a YearCoin block confirmation is a ton more secure than a Bitcoin block confirmation?

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By: Meni Rosenfeld http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/comment-page-1/#comment-4320 Mon, 10 Oct 2011 22:05:52 +0000 http://v1.ripper234.com/?p=1601#comment-4320 The flaw is that with a given honest/attacker ratio, the number of blocks determines probability of double-spending success, not the amount of time. So 6 blocks in Litecoin give as much security as 6 blocks in Bitcoin, no need to wait for 4 times as many blocks.

Of course there’s nothing “wrong” with Litecoin, it’s basically Bitcoin but with a different hash function. This kind of understanding of fundamentals is just an example for what separates those who have what it takes to create a successful cryptocurrency from those who don’t.

To the extent that both GPU-friendly and CPU-friendly mining have their place, they needn’t be in separate currencies – see for example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46423.msg555485#msg555485

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By: ripper234 http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/comment-page-1/#comment-4318 Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:49:37 +0000 http://v1.ripper234.com/?p=1601#comment-4318 @Meni, so far LiteCoin seems different than the rest. Your one critisicim about it (besides not being innovative enough) is lack of understanding of block security.
From the LiteCoin announcement:

“We were impressed by the convenience of SolidCoin’s fast transactions. Although we know that fast confirmations are not necessarily as secure as Bitcoin’s slower confirmations, they are very convenient for small merchants who don’t need transactions to be super secure. The average Litecoin block takes 2.5 minutes, one quarter of Bitcoin’s 10 minutes. So if merchants wanted to be as safe as Bitcoin, they can wait for 4 times the number of Litecoin confirmations as compared to Bitcoin.”

Unless I’m mistaken, there are no flaws in this statement (assuming equivalent ratio of honest nodes/attackers).

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By: Meni Rosenfeld http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/comment-page-1/#comment-4316 Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:04:16 +0000 http://v1.ripper234.com/?p=1601#comment-4316 What characterizes all alternative block-chain based currencies so far (Namecoin excluded, as it is fundamentally a DNS system rather than a currency) is the absolute cluelessness and lack of seriousness of their originators and followers. A tiny example is Litecoin’s demonstration of complete lack of understanding of the statistical properties of the way a number of block confirmations creates security (where, ironically, the truth of the matter works in favor of Litecoin). And don’t get me started on Solidcoin.

I think of all the work that went into creating Bitcoin. First there’s Satoshi, a man who by all accounts is a master of economics, probability, programming and network architecture. He devised an innovative design and spent years implementing it in an airtight way. He attracted brilliant developers to continue working on it technically and visionary entrepreneurs building businesses around it. It is still an uphill battle to get it accepted socially and economically. And that’s when there was a Bitcoin-shaped niche to fill.

And then there’s some schmo who thinks that by changing 5 lines of code and adjusting some design parameters he understands nothing about, he has created something that deserves to be even a blip on Bitcoin’s radar.

One day, there will have been identified several potential weaknesses in Bitcoin as well as features which may better suit different markets. Educated people who understand Bitcoin’s functionality and the challenges it faces will propose changes, but for some of them not manage to obtain consensus. They will gather and thoroughly think through a design for a new cryptocurrency which diverges fundamentally from Bitcoin. They will toil on implementing it and spend their time and money promoting it and building complementary services. It will experience the growing pains typical of a startup currency, but it will stand a chance competing with Bitcoin, and may find its place either supplementing or dethroning it.

This day has not yet come.

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By: Mark http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/comment-page-1/#comment-4314 Mon, 10 Oct 2011 02:01:53 +0000 http://v1.ripper234.com/?p=1601#comment-4314 I’m not sure any of these clone coins is going to succeed – the differences to bitcoin are all very slight really. Only a digital currency based on a completely fresh set of ideas will have any chance. The more clonecoins released the less interesting they become with each new one

@Ron Gavriely – Since bitcoin is money, you can also donate it too

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By: Bulanula http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/comment-page-1/#comment-4313 Sun, 09 Oct 2011 20:32:44 +0000 http://v1.ripper234.com/?p=1601#comment-4313 DO NOT use these scam coins. Better donate your CPU time to a project like the World Community Grid. This is a total scam. Litecoin especially. You have been warned.

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By: Ron Gavriely http://v1.ripper234.com/p/be-an-early-adopter-now-is-litecoin-the-new-fair-bitcoin/comment-page-1/#comment-4312 Sun, 09 Oct 2011 20:29:17 +0000 http://v1.ripper234.com/?p=1601#comment-4312 I still prefer to donate my spare CPU time:

http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org

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